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Thread: Bloodhound's Christine

  1. #141
    Thanks for the information mate - that will be a very useful reference for the future. maybe it should be a little technical thread on it's own.
    Captain Keep-On-Thread strikes again!!!

  2. #142
    Badass looking motor!! Great build for sure, outstanding work!

  3. #143

  4. #144
    Nice!!! Congratulations!
    1958 Plymouth Belvedere 2 dr ht (under restoration)

    ROCK AND ROLL WILL NEVER DIE

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Hound1958 View Post
    It LIVES! :)

    Sounds AWESOME!
    Failure is not falling down, it is not getting up again
    (00)==v==(00)

  6. #146

    Wink

    Thanks Guys! Glad you like it!

    After waiting several weeks I got the call that the Oval Air cleaners were finished and fully restored. Took my breath away when I got home and put them on. I just had to see what it looked like! Nothing beats original OEM parts brought back to better than new condition. I had no intentions of putting the stickers on since assembly line Christine did't have them. I also got a set of washer bag brackets from John Fowlie and wasted no time in getting them straightened, cleaned and coated. The motor has been dialed in and the cam has been broken in as well. I'll be back at her next spring and hope to drive her next summer. :)















  7. #147
    Nice photos mate - great reference for the rest of us to do our own detailing.

    Where did you get the washer bag from?
    Captain Keep-On-Thread strikes again!!!

  8. #148
    Amazing photos!! I'm going to have to go through your thread in check this car out!!

    Like Whizzy said, where did the Jiffy Jet bag come from? Repop?

  9. #149
    Glad you like it. :) The washer bag is a reproduction I bought from Gary Goers. He also supplied the new washer bag cap. The only negative so far is the exhaust manifold coating. It failed and they've already started rusting after running the motor in. I'll have to find a better alternative down the road.
    Last edited by Blood_Hound1958; 11-18-2017 at 10:27 AM.

  10. #150
    In case anyone's interested my car has her own facebook page now.. https://www.facebook.com/Christines-...4785692570645/

    As soon as things thaw out here from the long cold winter I'll be kicking this build into overdrive and updating the FB page regularly. Please "Like & Share"!!!
    She's close to completion now and a concerted effort should get her 100% completed by this spring/summer.

    Here's the "To Do" list...

    1.) R&R power steering gear box and column (Rebuild failed and box is malfunctioning)

    2.) R&R rear leaf springs. (One failed and is sagging)

    3.) Complete rear disc brake conversion, bleed brakes and inspect system.

    4.) Order new tires from Universal Vintage Tire (2 1/4" Whitewall 800R14 American Classic bias look radial tires SKU# U700302)

    5.) R&R push button shifter cable for correct length reproduction cable.

    6.) Final fitment and adjustment of exhaust system.

    7.) Install rear glass

    8.) Send out anodized parts for restoration & install.

    9.) Rechrome bumpers and Wings & install.

    10.) Install sport tone trim, hood emblem, fender spears & remaining stainless.

    11.) Alignment.

    12.) Custom interior design and installation (Using complete original fury interior for patterns.)

    13.) Test Drive

    14.) Sound system install.

    15.) Hunt down the shitters...

    :)

  11. #151
    Pretty low right now folks... Sadly, there's been a major setback in the saga to build this beast. I encountered a catastrophic engine failure this past week. Long story short, I fired up Christine for the first time this year and after warming up I revved the engine and blew a freeze plug out of the driver side of the block. The crankcase is full of coolant which means that I've blown one or both head gaskets at the very least. It's taken me several days to calm down and I am hoping that the block is OK and that it can be salvaged and this issue corrected. If not, this may be the point where this build comes to an end...

    I can go on and on and try to guess what happened and what the extent of the damage is. Cracked or warped heads blah blah blah... The only way to find out where I stand is to pull the motor and take it to my machine shop. They are more than willing to do right by me and work with me to figure this out. They've asked for the engine 100% complete so they can pressure test it and go over it with a fine tooth comb. It's going to suck for sure as I have to essentially remove the hood, fenders, rad support, heater core cover etc. I'll be pulling the engine and trans out together. From there I'll separate them and take the engine in.

    I'm just going to hold out hope that the cause can be identified, corrected and put behind us.

    A guy on FB had an incredibly detailed idea as to what happened and it makes perfect sense. Here's what he had to say...

    "Paul Vanderheijden Christine's Revenge Higher than normal compression motor I presume. Nothing wrong with that. At the time it was fired, the petrol tank was full of 98 or 99 octane fresh fuel. Now the car was garaged and come spring, the engine was fired. PROBLEM!!!!

    Your 98 octane fuel after sitting for 5-6 months is now probably about 85 octane, after all of the high value hydrocarbons has evaporated into thin air.

    Engine simply detonated on bad fuel, and blew a head gasket. Take off the head, check it for flatness, clean head and block, reassemble with new head gasket. Oh, and drain the fuel tank and put in fresh fuel.

    You are certainly not alone in making this mistake."

    "Paul Vanderheijden Christine's Revenge take the head off. Take a photo of the head gasket preferably in a reasonable state. What you will likely see is the fire ring on the head gasket pushed out in a peak to the nearest water jacket passage.

    Under normal operating pressures, at peak combustion pressure, the cylinder pressure will be around 1300-1500 PSI. Under detonation conditions, this can rise to as high as 4000 PSI. No head gasket known to man will withstand this type of pressure for long. If it does then very shortly thereafter, because of the increased heat generation associated with detonation, the temperature of the aluminum pistons will exceed there elastic limit and turn plastic in nature. Piston failure will then result.

    Fuel stabilizer is only good for keeping deposits from forming in the fuel (and then only marginally successful. Because the tank is "ventilated", lighter hydrocarbons included in the fuel mix will evaporate over time. The principle one, in case of road fuel, will be Toluene. I would suggest that you go to the paint store and purchase 2-3 litres of toluene (available as paint thinner/brush cleaner for synthetic paints). Simply drain some fuel off the tank in a container, mix in the Toluene, and pour back in the tank."

    "Paul Vanderheijden Christine's Revenge in the of detonation we are talking about 10-30 times the normal water system pressure. Such am extreme pressure increase wouls be more than sufficient to pop out a fteeze plug."

    So in essence, piston detonation makes the most sense but I won't know for sure until the machine shop diagnoses the issue. I suspect it was a combination of bad fuel, advanced timing and a possible lean condition that caused this. Hoping for a miracle...




  12. #152
    Oh my, IŽm sorry to hear that, Wayne. You put so much effort in this engine. I hope it is not that worse as it could be! Maybe weŽll all learn something about that.

  13. #153
    ICC member 57belv's Avatar
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    Man that really sucks Wayne and I'm sorry to hear. I must say that core plug though doesn't appear to have been flattened very much. so that maybe why it popped out. I mean, you'd expect the radiator cap to release before the block plug would fail. But coolant in the crankcase, Ouch! That engine was thoroughly inspected beforehand for cracks and straightness wasn't it? I know how meticulous you are. So with luck, it is just the head gasket.

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  14. #154
    First, I must say that a high compression engine blowing on poor quality fuel does not seem to suggest causes for a blown head gasket to me. Surely the problem would manifest itself in bad starting and lumpy running....a carb problem before a combustion chamber problem?? But then I am no expert, so am happy to bow to someoens' better knowledge.

    I have had a core plug pop on a completely rebuilt V8 (Triumph Stag). It was traced to blocked waterways in one of the cylinder heads caused by the recondition workshop sand blasting the heads clean and then water flushing. the water simply made the blasting media stick together and form solid plugs in the waterways. A blown core plug soon after fire-up would more likely suggest localised waterway problems than compression issues. Having said all that, your plug does not seem flattened enough to be a perfect seal. maybe it was a little too loose. Whenever I've fitted a core plug in the past after fitting I have always tapped the whole rim sideways into the block to ensure good sideways expansion, then sealed it on the outside with loctite high temperature sealant. I've seen way too many newly fitted core plugs weeping to trust them.

    Hope these comments are at least food for thought even if I might be wrong in your case.
    Captain Keep-On-Thread strikes again!!!

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1974 View Post
    Oh my, IŽm sorry to hear that, Wayne. You put so much effort in this engine. I hope it is not that worse as it could be! Maybe weŽll all learn something about that.
    Keeping fingers crossed Andy. I wanted to share this experience to help others learn by it. The Jury is out until the machine shop looks it over so it's anyone's guess as to the cause or causes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 57belv View Post
    Man that really sucks Wayne and I'm sorry to hear. I must say that core plug though doesn't appear to have been flattened very much. so that maybe why it popped out. I mean, you'd expect the radiator cap to release before the block plug would fail. But coolant in the crankcase, Ouch! That engine was thoroughly inspected beforehand for cracks and straightness wasn't it? I know how meticulous you are. So with luck, it is just the head gasket.

    Thanks Chris.. The block and heads were thoroughly cleaned and magnafluxed. I have a suspicion that the thermostat was closed and the pressure bled into the coolant channel where the gasket gave way. Super pressurized and had to give somewhere. It's all related as it happened in a split second. Just gotta power through this and wait until the machine shop figures it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy whizz View Post
    First, I must say that a high compression engine blowing on poor quality fuel does not seem to suggest causes for a blown head gasket to me. Surely the problem would manifest itself in bad starting and lumpy running....a carb problem before a combustion chamber problem?? But then I am no expert, so am happy to bow to someoens' better knowledge.

    I have had a core plug pop on a completely rebuilt V8 (Triumph Stag). It was traced to blocked waterways in one of the cylinder heads caused by the recondition workshop sand blasting the heads clean and then water flushing. the water simply made the blasting media stick together and form solid plugs in the waterways. A blown core plug soon after fire-up would more likely suggest localised waterway problems than compression issues. Having said all that, your plug does not seem flattened enough to be a perfect seal. maybe it was a little too loose. Whenever I've fitted a core plug in the past after fitting I have always tapped the whole rim sideways into the block to ensure good sideways expansion, then sealed it on the outside with loctite high temperature sealant. I've seen way too many newly fitted core plugs weeping to trust them.

    Hope these comments are at least food for thought even if I might be wrong in your case.
    We'll see Billy. Who knows? You may be onto something but I think that a blockage would have revealed itself during initial startup and break in last fall. I'll be sure to post our findings once the motor is back at the machine shop.

  16. #156
    ICC MEMBER big m's Avatar
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    Not wanting to doubt Paul's advice, but having owned a shop where I personally assembled several hundred engines, his explanation seems extremely unlikely. You would have had to be driving up a steep hill, or holding your foot on the brake while accelerating to cause the type of detonation he suggests. Generally, what happens on a detonating engine is a hole eventually burns through the center of a piston, not blowing a head gasket.

    Looking at the freeze plug, it doesn't appear to be dimpled enough to seat the edges into the block.

    ---John
    Big M Auto-

    "We buy junk, and sell antiques"
    ICC member since just after dirt, but before baseball.

  17. #157
    Have to agree with John on this one. However the water in the oil is a bit more of a mystery, specially enough to radically alter the level on the dipstick. I wonder if the water went into the oil before the core plug fell out and the two issues arent linked??

  18. #158
    Wow that really sucks big time Wayne, especially on first start up!
    Hoping for luck for you when the machine shop checks it out.

    I would check the head gaskets first.
    I do remember that you said it was a NOS motor. Even so, did you still go through it and replace the gaskets? From the motor sitting since 58, the gaskets probably dried up. And would explain why you blew a head gasket.

    Was she smoking white smoke when it blew?
    1958 Plymouth Belvedere 2 dr ht (under restoration)

    ROCK AND ROLL WILL NEVER DIE

  19. #159
    before everything gets torn down and dismantled is it worth putting a core plg back into the block and running the engine again?

    I know it's super super risky, but if you could you will be able to target any hot spots on the engine with the right thermometer. You would have to torque the heads down again before testing, but it might be better than a complete tear down and trying to figure it out from a stripped engine on the bench. Whenever I have encountered a serious fault in the past we were always advised to risk one last run so a few mechanics can hear and test the engine in place before everything gets pulled out. The ears are a fantastic tool in these situations and the reckoning was always "well the engine is goosed anyway, lets risk it".

    This is a shitty situation mate.....just trying to help you solve the mystery once and for all.

    Incidentally guys....are these engines known for warping their cylinder heads after a boil over?? Are there any characteristic weaknesses in the cylinder head/gasket/bolts department?
    Captain Keep-On-Thread strikes again!!!

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by big m View Post
    Not wanting to doubt Paul's advice, but having owned a shop where I personally assembled several hundred engines, his explanation seems extremely unlikely. You would have had to be driving up a steep hill, or holding your foot on the brake while accelerating to cause the type of detonation he suggests. Generally, what happens on a detonating engine is a hole eventually burns through the center of a piston, not blowing a head gasket.

    Looking at the freeze plug, it doesn't appear to be dimpled enough to seat the edges into the block.

    ---John
    Thanks for the input John. At this point I'm just hoping it isn't something that can't be corrected. I'd like to hear your best guess on this. Here's the exact course of events as it unfolded:

    1. I put fresh fuel in the tank... It was less than 1/4 full. I added 5 fresh gallons.
    2. Started her up and let her warm up for 10-15 mins.
    3. Revved her to high rpm and for a split second I heard 2 "tings".
    4. Thought I smelled anti freeze then the plug blew. I immediately shut her off.
    5. Checked oil and level was 1/2 way up the dipstick contaminated with coolant.

    Quote Originally Posted by christineuk View Post
    Have to agree with John on this one. However the water in the oil is a bit more of a mystery, specially enough to radically alter the level on the dipstick. I wonder if the water went into the oil before the core plug fell out and the two issues arent linked??
    You may be on to something Dean. To take that one step further I'm wondering about the exhaust manifold coating. It failed miserably after startup last fall. Overheated due to advanced timing perhaps? All I can do is hope this is fixable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 58Jackie View Post
    Wow that really sucks big time Wayne, especially on first start up!
    Hoping for luck for you when the machine shop checks it out.

    I would check the head gaskets first.
    I do remember that you said it was a NOS motor. Even so, did you still go through it and replace the gaskets? From the motor sitting since 58, the gaskets probably dried up. And would explain why you blew a head gasket.

    Was she smoking white smoke when it blew?
    Hi Jackie. I sold the NOS motor to build this one. It is the factory numbers matching motor for the car. It was completely checked and rebuilt from top to bottom prior to being started. I did smell a faint sweet smell from the exhaust about 2 seconds before the plug blew. It's anyone's guess at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by billy whizz View Post
    before everything gets torn down and dismantled is it worth putting a core plg back into the block and running the engine again?

    I know it's super super risky, but if you could you will be able to target any hot spots on the engine with the right thermometer. You would have to torque the heads down again before testing, but it might be better than a complete tear down and trying to figure it out from a stripped engine on the bench. Whenever I have encountered a serious fault in the past we were always advised to risk one last run so a few mechanics can hear and test the engine in place before everything gets pulled out. The ears are a fantastic tool in these situations and the reckoning was always "well the engine is goosed anyway, lets risk it".

    This is a shitty situation mate.....just trying to help you solve the mystery once and for all.

    Incidentally guys....are these engines known for warping their cylinder heads after a boil over?? Are there any characteristic weaknesses in the cylinder head/gasket/bolts department?
    Billy, Because the engine is so rare and numbers matching I will not take any unnecessary risks. My machine shop wants to pressure test the motor intact. I'll be there when the teardown begins. I have to respect their wishes as they will cover the cost of any mistakes and work with me as they have for the last 30 years. It's a mystery no doubt. I have been a nervous wreck over this as you might imagine. I rolled the dice to make the car right and it was an expensive one at that. If it's salvageable it will be completely torn down... all parts cleaned and inspected and she'll be reassembled with new bearings, rings and gaskets. Just gotta hope we can get there.

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